Ethics Of The Life Coaching Industry

Episode 26

Danielle Napolio Cox

Hello and welcome back. This week on the podcast I'm doing things a little bit differently. Recently, myself and two of my life coaching peers had a conversation about some of the concerns we had about the life coaching industry. Because it is unregulated. I asked the ladies to pause on the conversation. And let me record it so that I could share this conversation with you. So today you'll hear a conversation between myself and Michelle Galloway, and sunny the life coach, as we discuss our own observations and thoughts on the life coaching industry because it is an unregulated industry, which makes it prone to having some corruption, some manipulation and lots of unethical practices.


You can learn more about Michelle and Sonny in the show notes. But I invite you to take a listen and consider your own thoughts about the booming life coaching industry. With that, I present to you the unedited conversation that we had, it's my hope that it will be thought provoking and enjoyable as you consider whether or not working with a life coach is the right choice for you. Enjoy the show. Today I'm here with Michelle and sunny and so please you guys, introduce yourself and tell us who you are and what you do.


Machele Galloway

Sure, I am Michelle Galloway, I am a certified life coach, I have a very special geeky flair for time management and all things getting shit done.


Sunny the Life Coach

I love it and I am sunny the life coach. And I help all of the humans really just live their best life that they can with whatever is bothering them in the moment we work through all kinds of things, I promise, it's always amazing.


Danielle Napolio Cox

I'm excited to have you guys here today. Okay, thanks, guys for being here today. So I am dying to continue our discussion, but now publicly about the life coaching industry. And what we have been seeing in terms of because it's unregulated, it's sort of trendy and hip and popular to call yourself a life coach. But at the same time, a lot of even really big influencers are doing a lot of damage to the term life coaching, because they're selling products that maybe they're not qualified to sell, or they are using marketing manipulation to get people to buy their products.


Then people are disappointed when it turns out that what they sold isn't in alignment with their own lives. I don't want to name names here, but there are some pretty big influencers who have called themselves life coaches, and have betrayed their audience. And I think the whole industry is starting to suffer. So I was hoping you guys can help me, considering if someone is feeling like life coaching the skeptical industry, like just another marketing popular trend? What would you say to them? As you? as they start to question, why would I even hire a life coach, everybody, literally everybody, and their dog is a life coach these days? So what would you say to the skeptics?


Machele Galloway

I'll take it. And this is Michelle. And I, you know, and I think we probably all ran into this when we first got certified, especially like the people that know us well are like, oh, okay, you're a life coach. And I think the one well, the interesting thing is, there are so many different types of life coaches, it isn't a regulated industry. So there's so many different methods and strategies, different coaches, you and the good coaches last, I firmly believe a good coach will last and so a good sign of a coach that's been around for a while, you can almost kind of assume that they're on the up and up, although it's not always a guarantee to really interesting in that way. But I think my main advice would be, don't let a few bad apples spoil the bucket or for that saying is because just like doctors, right, there are bad doctors. There are also a lot of amazing doctors. And so with every profession, you get some good you get some bad and it's certainly I would certainly encourage against like canceling out life coaching as an option for you because there's so much you can accomplish in your life using a life coach who's who practices ethically.


Sunny the Life Coach

Yeah, Michelle, thank you for that. This is sonny. And I want to add to that sentiment that in every industry there, you know, are some people who are more on the up and up in terms of ethics and others. And that's just humans. That's who we are. And I will remember a conversation that my grandmother I had with me a long, long time ago, and she was a therapist, and she was a rock star therapist. Unfortunately for me, she lived in Arizona, and I lived in Kentucky. So also, she didn't want to, she didn't want to be my therapist, because she had a vested interest in me as a person. And that's what she told me. But I was having a conversation with her. So many years ago, Oh, my gosh, I must have been in my early 20s at the time, and I was just desperate for help. And I couldn't find a therapist. And she told me, she's like, Look, it's like, it's like shopping for a car. It's a commitment. That is the analogy that she used with me at the time. But she's like, this is a commitment. This is an investment in your mental and emotional health. And you want to make sure that you have the right person for you. So if you have had a few bad experiences, I'm sorry, but don't give up. Because you have.


Danielle Napolio Cox

I love that, you know, for me, I know the three of us, we are all certified coaches, and having had the conversation offline, we all came to coaching because we've experienced the real powerful effects of working with someone who can help you in this way. And whatever your struggles are. So I get that everyone's trying to capitalize on it. But you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because people get real transformations through coaching, it really happens. And that's why I think word of mouth. And direct recommendations can go a long way. Because anybody I mean, literally anybody can call themselves a life coach, when I go to networking meetings, went to one last night, I met every single woman, I asked, oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm a life coach for and then they named an industry. And I of course want to call people out like so are you certified? What does that mean? Not because not, I have many mentors who are not certified, who are amazing. I have some who are certified that aren't.


I don't use the certification as I see it as a dedication, commitment they've made for themselves not as a qualifier for successful results. So but I love that analogy. It is like shopping for a car. And if somebody were going to look for a life coach, what advice would you give them as they are, quote, shopping for their car? How would you help them so that they could know whether or not they're getting something that I see a lot, there's a lot of really good marketing can make someone look authentic, even if it's inauthentic in the marketing? And so how can you help somebody filter through the marketing fluff? And realize like, what would you advice would you give them to filter through that and find out if the person they're talking to is actually someone who can help?


Machele Galloway

I think the first bit of advice, and this goes with anything, look for referrals, reach out to your network and your community and find out if you know anyone that's hired a coach, who did they use? What did they think? Was it a favorable experience? And then, and then when it comes down to the beloved marketing funnel? Yes, you can have coaches who are freaking genius as a marketing, but then maybe not so great as a coach. And one of the things the powerful marketers do really well is they almost use a sense of manipulation as far as like, oh, you're doubting that I can help you. That's because you don't believe in yourself. That's, and so it's really interesting. So really trust your intuition. follow your gut, if if you reach out to someone and you connect with them on a consultation, and you get the sense that they're really pressuring you and pushing you. And any hesitation you have is being pushed back on you as your own downfall. Listen to that, don't don't let yourself get pressured into signing up for coaching that you don't feel super comfortable and 100% on board with.


Sunny the Life Coach

And what do you do? I mean, back to that analogy of the car, what do you do before you drive before you buy a car before you make that purchase? before you make that commitment? You test drive it? Right? I mean, you want to know if it feels right for you. And sometimes just taking it a step beyond referrals, absolutely start with those referrals. But taking a step beyond that is this person that you're looking at? considering hiring as a coach as a partner, as someone who is going to be in your life? I mean, this is forming a new relationship, right? Yeah. And it's and it can be pretty intimate in ways you're going to be sharing things with this person. So is it you know, can you trust this person can you get a good feel for this person? Can you spend an hour 45 minutes or even 30 minutes in a car solterra have a call with them and just kind of get a feel for how you can interact with that person.


Danielle Napolio Cox

I totally agree with both of you guys. Here's some I'll just share it with everyone and with Sonny's audience and Michelle's, if you post this to your audience, but also to mine, I have a couple things that I've learned after being on the receiving end of a surprise sales call where I was lowered on the call, like, hey, let me help you with this. And then it was all of a sudden, like, Well, let me let me tell you what I do here, you want to sign up. And so I've gotten a few tips and tips and tricks that I figured out, and I'm just sharing to help whoever's listening. First of all, I have committed to myself that I do not, I do not agree to anything on that call, I come into that call. And I tell them very blankly, I will not be making this decision today, I sleep on my decisions before I make a commitment. And then I watch how they respond. And they will respond with one of two ways, they will either try to get me to erode my boundaries, and talk me out of it. Or they will respect my boundaries. And they may still continue the sales conversations, but they will acknowledge that I have a boundary and they will respect it. And that immediately tells me I don't want the person who feels entitled or like it's permissible for them to talk me out of something that I've already declared as a way of honoring my own decision making process.


Right there immediately, the person who tries to erode my boundaries, it's a no, because if they're, they're not, they're looking out for me, if they were, they would say, Hey, I respect that, no problem, let's talk about it some more. And then we'll talk tomorrow. And if they can't do that, then they're not my person right away, there's no results they can give me that I will trust because I don't trust them to understand me, because really, all I want is my coach to understand me. And a lot of times I know earlier in the call, if they understand me, because if they are using my exact words in the conversation, then they're just mimicking me. If they can take my words, and reframe it and reinterpret it and help me either to see it differently, or to repeat it in a different way that I know they understand me. And so those clues kind of show up in the call. And then at the end, I just say I'm not making a decision today, I'm interested, and when they throw scarcity at me, but if you sign up today, you get this in this, say I go in willing to give up whatever the scarcity is, I just have made it my role, I do not decide on those calls. And it tells me everything I need to know about that coach.


Machele Galloway

Oh, I love that. I think that is such solid advice. So solid.


Sunny the Life Coach

It really is. And I also love that you are acknowledging your boundaries, because let's talk about how many coaches will push back on you and try to get you to change your thoughts on the matter. Okay. It's only because of your thoughts about what I'm saying that creates this problem. And that's not necessarily true. I love that you are respecting your own boundaries, and you are looking for that mutual respect in return. I mean, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that it does, that doesn't mean that something has gone wrong, that you have created this space for yourself at protective, safe space. And you're looking for that mutual respect. I think that's a beautiful thing. And that's


Danielle Napolio Cox

why I make sure my coaches agree with that. Because it's a relationship, right? When you you're entering into a really deep relationship with someone. And just like you wouldn't choose a partner who didn't respect your boundaries, why would you choose a coach, it's the same thing. And so you certainly with the money exchange doesn't change, a relationship, a basic relationship? And so yeah, so I'm happy to share that I hope it benefits everyone. But I will be completely honest, there have been times I've gotten off the call and like an hour, like I wait an hour, and I'm ready to like, call it. I'm interested. Right? But I honor I get off the call. And I honor the commitment, which is I don't make decisions on these calls. I sleep on it. And I may not actually sleep on it, but I will wait to respond to that answer on the call.


With that, let's talk about some of the manipulative sales practices that we kind of ended that were the coaches are really good at helping people uncover and I'm just gonna say we're gonna cast this as an explicit episode, uncover their shit, and take a look at it and have to face it. So part of this sometimes we get on the call and we do need a coach to help us uncover it. And let us be uncomfortable with whatever it is that they're uncovering for us, and then coach us to overcoming it. So that is the beauty in coaching. However, that same skill can be used to manipulate you mentally and to downgrade us. I'd love to know what you guys think of those types of practices if you've experienced it, and any advice you would have for someone who found themselves sort of being screwed. Fed their thoughts and their opinions on the call and why it's wrong.


Machele Galloway

Yeah, it's, there's a cover two different things. So one on the consultation, there's an interesting dynamic when you connect with a coach, because depending on what it is you're trying to transform in your own life, you for sure have part of your brain who's like not worth the effort, it's never gonna work. You don't even try the part that's like, No, no, let's just watch Netflix, it all the things not do any work here. And so you are going to naturally have some resistance and like, just human nervousness around something working. And then the coach, the coaches job is to help you overcome that. So you don't give up on yourself. But then there's this fine little line between helping you overcome what, what you're nervous about within yourself to like aggressively trying to get you to sign up to be a client.


That's why I think intuition is huge in both areas. So intuition is big on the console, because you can feel your way through some shady practices, I do believe our intuition tricks, or flags us in that way. And then I have for sure had been on the receiving end of what? What kind of coaching? What how do we turn this coaching where it's every issue you bring? It's like, okay, let's change, why are you choosing to feel confused? Oh, I don't know, because my body is offering me that option. But I for sure have been on the receiving end of it. And looking back, like my telltale signs, I was annoyed as hell, beyond frustrated, and I would get up out of every session, I go, oh my god, what is wrong with me that I have so much resistance to this shit? Why am I having such a problem thinking new thoughts? And, surprisingly, never once did I question my own intuition. I never thought oh, maybe it's because this isn't the right way. And I know that the industry really well, but I still kind of fell for it. So my big thing is listen to your intuition, always. And if you keep feeling frustrated and annoyed with the process, like dig deep on that,


Sunny the Life Coach

I really appreciate that because there is so much of this that is pervasive, I can't see it. I know the two of you can see it. I'm not sure that you're for lack of a better word, average person out there. And by that, I mean, okay, everyone's amazing. Everyone is amazing. I mean, non coaches. Right. So, you know, they're the the non coaches out there who are seeking coaches. We know, there is a lot of somewhat sinister, I don't know that it is necessarily intentional, but somewhat sinister, if you will, undercurrent of just change your thoughts. Just change your thoughts. You know, let me coach you on your thoughts, your thoughts are wrong. Now they don't come out and say that, but it's implied, it's explicitly implied that you will feel better about your life, if you can simply change your thoughts. And that isn't always the answer.


Sometimes the answer is to actually be in the muck and the mud and in the, in the shitty part of it, and experience that as well. So when I say, I want to help you feel better. I mean, I don't mean you're going to be happy all the time, and that it's going to be good for you all the time. That's not how humans are designed. And so I think that if you have a coach constantly trying to sell you on you changing your thoughts about them about the state of the world about anything else, I would definitely question that within yourself.


Danielle Napolio Cox

I love this so much. And it brings me to a whole new topic that we could totally discuss the idea of toxic positivity, which is what I think a lot of people associate with trendy life coaching. It's like good vibes only or think positive thoughts. And so that's one of my personal beefs with the term life coaches, they think we're here to help you live a happy life. And Sunday what you mentioned is not the coaches are here to help you figure out how to get through those tough times and enjoy the times that are great. So with that with toxic positivity, for people who don't know what that is, but either you like to explain it or how you see it and how you think how positive experiences and negative experiences can be balanced within a coaching relationship and with coaching specifically.


Machele Galloway

Yeah, it's it's really interesting because this just came up for me I hosted a webinar over the weekend called How to stop beating yourself up and one of the women on there, made a comment. She said Oh my god, just tell me how you're always so positive. How is everything always so great for you? And I was like, Oh shit. I don't think I'm sharing enough of my mess with my audience and so as the universe does it dished up a real shitty day for me and so I was like really in the muck of it and and I think now the difference for me is I'm so much more gentle with myself when I have a really bad day. I'm it's such a gentle process where before I would have so much frustration and resistance now I'm just like, Okay, well, let me just have my own back here. But I went into my facebook group, I went live and shared that I was having a shitty day and kind of talked about that a little bit. And I had such a huge response to that. Because people and I for sure, I'm guilty of this like I don't go on there and share all my dirt and all my bad stuff. And and so they're like, Oh my god, this is so helpful. It's good to know you're human and, and that you have bad days, too. And so I think it is easy to forget that piece. Certainly as for me.


Sunny the Life Coach

Yeah, I mean, we want to share the good things we don't want to, as you said, share our mess and but I have literally had to unfollow some of my friends for a while, you know, kind of snooze them for all of the quote unquote, toxic positivity, it is just constant. It's like every other hours, like, Oh, this is wonderful. This is wonderful. This is wonderful. I mean, isn't, it isn't fucking wonderful. It is not always wonderful. You know, and, and I don't want to pretend that it is. Yeah, I really don't want to pretend that it is. I don't want to pretend that it is for me, for you, or for any of us that all you have to do is change your thoughts or think happy thoughts and good vibes only, as you said, Danielle, I and I'm just over that I am so over that. Like, I understand raising your vibration. I really, really do. And you know, there's a whole scale to that.


Sometimes the next best vibration from complete and utter devastation is just anger. Right? Anger is a higher vibe than devastation, right? I don't know I got that. Right. But it might be right. It's like it to me. Yeah, I mean, that that just is or resentment, or jealousy, or any of those things that we try to cover up constantly. You know, so sometimes that high vibe just means one step up from where you are in the moment. And I would really, really love it if more coaches would just acknowledge that instead of trying to paint this beautiful picture of life. And that's the way it should be all the time. Because it is not. Yeah.


Danielle Napolio Cox

Okay, you girls, I'm totally guilty of being the one putting out the positively Monday at the time. So this reminds me a lot of times for me, I'm quiet, mostly because I'm doing my own healing. And so I don't have a whole lot to say the only time I one thing I did, and I need to do it more. And so I'm just confessing this publicly. I had a failed launch. I love to launch during Mercury Retrograde, which I don't know why


Machele Galloway

that's amazing.


Danielle Napolio Cox

I'm like, Oh, look, it's great. I've scheduled that. And I had a launch that that failed miserably. All the tech went awful. It was not a fun experience. And the thing I did was I turned on my microphone. And I just recorded how I felt. And it was very cathartic for me to just get it out there and just say, look, this sucks. I know it's gonna be better. But right this moment, I'm miserable. I'm awful. And I just published it. I didn't edit it. It was just a stream of consciousness. But I think it's right I think I know I struggle with and since I'm so glad you you guys mentioned this because I clearly need this. I want to be an inspiration for people I want people to see what's possible.


That means I need to show them what's possible to come out of, in addition to exist as so I definitely need to focus on that a lot more. I challenge I'm challenged with do I talk about my everyday life or do I talk about the challenges in business? I don't know. But this is a great topic for me personally to explore because I don't like toxic positivity. I think it feels good, but it it's trying to circumvent some very part of our human nature, which is we're meant to feel awful sometimes. And we're meant to stay in awfulness for a while sometimes. And what matters is that we don't unpack and move in in the office space right? That's what matters is that we say okay, I'm here and it's temporary. But I'm not going to move in and subtle impetus forever. I'm going to the door of possibility open for things to get better.


Machele Galloway

You know, it's interesting, you might like this, Danielle. I don't know if you were on the call where I talked about hiring myself as a coach.


Sunny the Life Coach

Yeah. This is so good.


Machele Galloway

I had a successful hot mess happy hour for my group. And they all celebrated their wins. And at the end, they're like, What about yours, Michelle, and I was like, Oh, shit. I couldn't think of anything non business related. And so I kind of spun out after it a little, I was like, Oh, my God, all my clients are getting great, blah, blah, blah. And so I said, I'm going to hire myself as a coach. And so I literally set up a new client folder, I have 45 minute appointments on my schedule, like I literally treat myself, like my own client. But I cannot talk about business, because that's what I always want to do. And so I forced myself to only talk about personal stuff, but I share that I share the math on that, because I was I was kind of like you, I didn't want to share the business mess so much. But I'm like anything I uncover in my coaching sessions with myself in my personal life I can share. And it's been really fun, and people have really loved it. Oh, that's brilliant. It's way easier to wrap my head around, then to share the business mess.


Danielle Napolio Cox

And for the record for everyone listening, Michelle has an amazing annual business meeting. Tell us about that. Because I'm completely embracing this. And I think it's genius. So now I'm adding my weekly coaching sessions with myself. But tell us about your annual company meetings.


Machele Galloway

Yeah, so I started this last year, because I wanted to celebrate my one year and having a full time business. And so I rented like a really nice honeymoon resort, or not a resort but a honeymoon cabin, just for myself, literally created my own little agenda. I've set it up pretty official, you had a folder with my little business. And I and so I got to the resort and I unpacked and did all that. And I had my first day was like all business stuff. And I just reviewed my business, what worked, what worked, what didn't work so well. and different things like that. And then I wrote myself future me a letter where I tried to guess all the things that would be different in my business a year from that day on.


Danielle Napolio Cox

Well, and I love that this will probably continue when you start having a team too. You can plan for it right? It's already baked into your business.


Machele Galloway

Yeah, it's so fun.


Sunny the Life Coach

Your annual company retreats.


Machele Galloway

Yeah, I heard a rumor that I might get Employee of the Year this year, I'm not sure. I'm gunning for you. So put a good word in.


Danielle Napolio Cox

So continuing on. So since the three of us we are certified life coaches, and we all pretty much agree certification is a personal choice. It's not necessarily reflective of superior coaching skills or not right, there are amazing coaches who aren't certified and some who are certified that are not as amazing. But do you guys think should certified coaches be held to a higher standard than uncertified coaches, when to the average public certification sounds very official and formal? And there's sort of a presumed sense of authority that comes with that? Do you think that they should be held to a higher standard because they've chosen in terms of integrity and ethics and marketing and ethics and selling and ethics in the results they create for people? What do you guys


Machele Galloway

think? Yeah, I definitely think so. And it's interesting, because I met a woman today on a virtual coffee chat, who just wants to be a life coach, she's not certified, and wasn't really interested in getting certified. And so I was just, we were just having a conversation, and there's so much you don't know. And so even if someone has the best of intentions, and they're not certain, they don't know what they don't know. And so while they're doing everything they think is amazing, they might be missing things just out of lack of knowledge. And if people that are certified, I 100% think should be held to a higher standard. I think anyone in this industry should be because it's not I mean, we're not selling marketing services, we're working with people and their mental health, so to speak, and improving their life, it's a pretty big job we're given so I think, I can't imagine any scenario where we shouldn't be held to the highest standards.


Sunny the Life Coach

I'm going to take the opposite of that. And simply and just take a piece of what you just said, Michelle, and that is anyone who is entering this realm as a business and working with people and their emotional well being and and their goals and their lives should be held to a higher standard, whether or not they are under a body of you know, an organization or anything like that because again, there is no regulation in this industry. I feel like if you have chosen this path, the ethics and integrity need to come right along with you. They need to come along for the ride. Whether or not you get all of the formal education, if you will, I'm using air quotes now the formal education mean, think about, think about the college degree and the high school diploma. I mean, what does that really mean, in the real world? In the real world? What What difference does that piece of paper make? I don't know, in terms of ethics, and integrity, and all of that. So I, I agree with what you're saying, in terms of getting the education and awareness and understanding and running the paces. And knowing what you're dealing with. I'm not sure that the piece of paper means you need more, or that you should be held to a higher standard, I think every coach should be held to a high standard. That's me.


Machele Galloway

Yeah,


Danielle Napolio Cox

that's a great argument. You know, Sonny, I originally was with Michelle thinking, gosh, you know, I feel like if you are going to invest and call yourself a certified coach, because it because if you're doing that only because of public perception, that somehow means that I'm using air quotes, superior coaching, then you should be held to a higher standard, according to that public perception. But you're right, Sonny, at the end of the day, the entire industry is needs to rise to the ethical level of of that. And so I'm so glad you said that, because now that I think about it, I think you're right. I didn't start that way. But now I'm like, Yeah, she's right. The whole standard, this industry needs to come up to a higher standard, because we are dealing with people's well beings, and the effect that words and communications and this relationship has, it's, it can, it can in good and negative ways transforms people's lives for the for the good or the worse. And so having the standard across the board seems like the only way to do it now but you're you've entered it so I thank you for that funny.


Sunny the Life Coach

Well, and I mean, in the spirit of there is no right or wrong, right? There's no right or wrong answer there just is. And I don't take that as like lip service and poach speak, I really take that as like universal language, there is no right or wrong there justice. Right. As I say, right. You know that that is our language that is that is what we what we do, we are seeking the right answers. We are trying not to be wrong. And so I think that for I mean, of course, we are all certified, and I do recommend certification. And I also again, yeah, I just I absolutely stand by the entire industry needs to rise and be ethical and in in that area, period.


Danielle Napolio Cox

I thank you for that so much. Because now that gives me a lot to think about. So I've got two things, I need to work on my showing off the mess and the standards for the industry, you don't need to do a damn thing. You decide. Exactly, I would like to do more, because it feels like something I feel I feel like there's some work to do there. Thank you. And so I'm talking more about, about just the industry in general, what is realistically possible for an unregulated industry in terms of really having we know what the power is people who have been transformed through coaching, know how powerful it is, a good coach can really help you bring out the best parts of you. What do we what would we love to see across the industry? What's the industry that we want to see? Do we see more hate to say regulation on people who use the term life coach? Do we have some sort of ethics board? What would you guys suggest?


Unknown Speaker

You know, it's interesting, and I've thought about this, I think it's a tough industry to regulate, because there are so many believers of a coach or somebody, people, I mean, use the term coach for so many different things. I mean, I do like the idea and so spark kind of what you're working on Danielle, the idea of maybe having an ethical belonging to an ethical coaching association or having some kind of certification or I can't even think of the right term for it. That just says like, Look, ethics are very important to me so much so that I invested in my own and I am part of this association that helps keep me educated on on all all things ethical and coding. I mean, I do think that's a really interesting idea.


Sunny the Life Coach

It is, it's almost like You know, having Continuing Education Requirements right? So it's almost like that idea of even if everyone isn't certified again through the same body or even certified at all, that there be some kind of annual check in almost like diversity, equity and inclusion, you know, I mean that has that is its own thing. And there is a I mean, all kinds of places that you can go to get your schooling, if you will, in areas that you're not sure of or to keep yourself aware, aware of what is happening in the world around you.


I think that that I mean, that would be a really cool thing to do. And I brought up dei because I just remember Trudy lebrun having a an episode on her podcast I think I think it was the business remix podcast about should the coaching industry be certified and she made such a damn good argument against it against the regulation part sorry that it just it made so much sense so I highly recommend checking out that episode I can't think of it off the top of my head it's been oh gosh a good six months or so since I heard it but it was really well thought out and she put out some really good arguments on it. So I'm thinking okay, the highly regulated maybe not so much but I'm all for like some continuing education check in you know,


Machele Galloway

educate people. Yeah, some. And it's interesting, I used to work in the dental industry, I wasn't a clinician myself, but I was in the industry. And so we have all these dentists and then there was a group called the patrimony of General Dentistry and it was an optional Academy that dentists could sign up for and go through and be a member of and it was the easiest way way we would tell civilians to find a good dentist if he's certified area he's a member of the Academy of General Dentistry he's a good dentist, he cares about his patients. So it is very similar the idea that this ethical organization could be like that thing like if they have this ethical if they're a member of this ethical Association there for sure in it for the right reasons which is really interesting to think about it is because yeah, it's kind of surprising it doesn't exist right now to be honest.


Danielle Napolio Cox

Yeah, yeah. As you guys know, I this is one of my hot points. Although I haven't shared my audience but I do think I think unethical coaches they especially if they are celebrity coaches, to use the term loosely they there whether it's intentional or just irresponsible it doesn't really matter because the effect is the same to people when you hurt when you impact people's opinion of life coaching effects a lot of people so let's raise the bar and let's hold ourselves to a higher standard right people today are talking about white privilege we weren't talking about this two years ago, but we've all seen it we understand it now and we can see our own how we've fallen short for me I'm a half white woman how often I see it and so now that I know I do better right and I don't want to perpetuate that and so the idea that there's some standards that say hey here's how we can do this better how we can create more good than harm can really I think in my opinion and along you guys can really check transform this industry from being just another trendy and other trend that was self development trendy, it's a multi level marketing for self development type format, and really legitimize the impact that coaching has on individuals


Unknown Speaker

now


Sunny the Life Coach

I'm so glad you brought up multi level marketing for what do you say self development self improvement? Yeah, I mean I I feel that I feel that not not just having recently watched Lula rich but thanks for the recommendation Michelle.


Machele Galloway

Oh you're welcome I got in quit


Sunny the Life Coach

I'm not just having recently watched that but I think that it just kind of all came together for me like I've been feeling that brewing within the coaching industry that kind of you know, just thinking about it from that perspective as an MLM and it isn't mean we're all entrepreneurs and we don't we don't have an upline we do not have an upline, we do not have a downline. We are who we are And we are in it for the highest good. But how do you distinguish yourself from all of the other, for lack of a better word, the cookie cutter coaches out there, who are really you know, who are running the Facebook ads like crazy and beating down your door to say, I can fix it all for you.


Machele Galloway

Yeah, just I think your reputation, I think that's what helps set your car. And, you know, some of some of the people use your referencing, I think in the beginning genuinely had the best of intentions are like I just want to help these people. And then they get really good at helping these people, right, they have this, I'm going to help my clients create this one specific result, and I'm going to get really good at doing it. And it's amazing, and they do get really good at doing this. And then all of a sudden, this little thing happens where they said, Okay, I want to stop worrying about my clients results start worrying about mine.


Now, I'm going to instead of hyper focusing on creating the best result they can for my client, I'm going to create the best result I can for myself. And that's I think the intersection where shit goes south. That's where you see coaches who are so synonymous with over delivering, stop over delivering, then it becomes more of a money game. And it's an unfortunate trend to watch unfold, because there are amazing coaches out there, they get wrapped up in this and and maybe it is an easy thing to do when you get to that level. I mean, I would like to think I wouldn't get sucked into that. And God forbid if I ever do want you to need to like schedule an intervention. But I think that's the big difference. And that does become obvious over time. I see.


Danielle Napolio Cox

Yeah. I wish I could heart the sentence, instead of creating the best result for my client and creating the best result for myself. I think that summarizes that line where you know, you've crossed into questionable marketing and coaching practices


Machele Galloway

now. And I think it's an easy one to cross and then and then it's almost like probably like drug addicts go through. It's like, oh, he took one hit. Now I'm living in an alley somewhere. It just happens fast. So it's a it is an interesting industry. It definitely is.


Danielle Napolio Cox

And I think the importance of mentors and peers who call you out on it, right? There's that checks and balance. Yeah. Because it's what I've seen for the people who have made that switch from getting the best result for the clients to getting the best result for themselves. Their mentors are doing the same. And they're following people in front of them.


Machele Galloway

Yeah, creates that trickle down effect. And then you've got a roomful of people. Of course this is amazing. I'm doing it too and that yeah, it's interesting just


Sunny the Life Coach

MLM.


Danielle Napolio Cox

Exactly that's just the perfect you want


Machele Galloway

moldy leggings it's not mold it's a pattern


Sunny the Life Coach

that is so interesting yet literally literally is trickling down that is so good you you ladies are like bending my brain right now


Unknown Speaker

that's yeah good


Danielle Napolio Cox

so with that I if you guys have anything else to add let's add it otherwise we can start wrapping up because I'm my brain is the wheels are spinning and I'm I'm like off the rails ready to go dig in deep in some of this stuff. Yeah, anything else you want to add before we wrap up the episode


Sunny the Life Coach

you've been making your list over there Daniel i have


Machele Galloway

i think i would say if you're entertaining hiring a life coach and if you're Danielle or Sunday listener and you've been on the fence about it reach out go through the process you can for sure trustees to go through the process, get a feel for how they can help you because life coaching can flip your life upside down in the best of ways ever. And it's totally worth at least giving yourself a chance to hear hear about how it works find out how each of them can help you and if you want to seek other coaches on the industry give it a shot but consults with three different coaches and I would follow Danielle strict laid each of them no I'm not deciding today I'm not driving that damn car off the lot. And then go with your frickin intuition. always trust your intuition always, always always.


Sunny the Life Coach

That is so good. I love Danielle's approach to of not giving an answer on that because unfortunately, in this industry that is one of the things that we are taught is like to close the sale on the call and you know that that kind of thing and it's never been about that for me it's been the same thing I've been feeling out that relationship myself is this a client that I would like to have in my life. I mean, is it? I don't know, again it is. It is, it can be an intimate relationship, we expect that you trust us enough to share what is really, really bothering you.


If you want to go on this journey with us and I love to walk alongside you on that journey, then it is it is definitely a huge step toward trust. And I think just taking your time in that. I've had, I've had clients tell me, I'm not I'm not ready to make a decision this week. And I'm like, Okay, cool. Let me know when you are, you know, I'll be right here. I'm good. Yeah. Be right here doing my thing. I'm ready for you when you are, you know, that's it. I'm just it's we are not used car sales women. We are no we are not I love how we were able to carry that analogy all the way through though.


Machele Galloway

I didn't even put the dots. That's so funny, Sunny.


Danielle Napolio Cox

Well, I so I love it. And I think there's a lot of people like, like, as I think we're going to start slowly seeing a revolution in the industry, as people, both coaches start aligning to their integrity. And people start not writing off the power of life coaching, but also falling into their own integrity as they choose who they let have that much space in their mind. And so I'm very hopeful for the industry, I think we are headed in a good direction, I think there will be bumps in the road. I think that's just inevitable with an industry like this that is growing and booming. And so I feel like if if anyone is considering life coaching, give it a try.


If you get a couple bad coaches, couple bad calls, don't throw out don't disregard the entire industry. Because really, we're all here because it's changed our life. When we understood our mind at the deepest level, it changes every area of your life because you're the only constant in your life. Everything else is a variable. And when you change, everything changes. So that's my best advice and how I would send everybody off in this episode is find your person. Life Coaching is amazing. Things are gonna get better. You've had a bad experience. write that off as a bad experience and find your person to help you with whatever problem you're struggling with because there's someone out there who will be able to help you with what you want.


Machele Galloway

Yes, yes, yes.


Sunny the Life Coach

I love it. Thank you so much for putting this together. Daniel.


Danielle Napolio Cox

Thanks so much. And for the recording everyone listening Of course, Michel Anthony's information will be in the show notes. Thanks for being here and we will talk again soon. Bye ladies.


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